Close the english playroom ?

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1. Aminiel,

Hello all,

We are extremely sorry for honnest people, but are getting to a grave question: completely remove free tables as well as all public chat from the playroom, and if this is not sufficient, press the red button that simply closes the whole english playroom.

We admit that it's a very regrettable decision to take, nobody wants it to happen, it would be an huge step backward; but if we are urged to do it, we will do it.

Some idiot people are unfortunately pushing us in that direction, more and more along as the time is going. It's sad that a minority of stupid people are making so much trouble while 99% other people are just fine and didn't do anything. Most notably, we have noticed:

It's very sad considering that we are working volontarily and quite hard to maintain a fun and friendly place. It would also be very sad including for us to stop everything considering the enormous amount of energy and time we put into the playroom.

We admit not always having taken the correct decisions. We preferred providing things that everybody enjoys and can see, rather than things that can make people sad, that are not interesting at all to program, and that are quite invisible for most of end users. In clear, we primarily focused on making new games and new features, and neglegted a lot security, bannings, moderation and the like. WE dit and still do so because we always trusted everyone to keep the place naturally as it has to be. However, nowadays, we notice that we were wrong and that we are getting urged to solve the issue.

Of course, no starting date is fixed for this possible shut down and other details aren't well defined yet, but this would normally only be temporary, until we find a good and durable solution for everyone. It could last for weeks and perhaps months if we need it though. One thing is sure, we need to have a break in order to think carefully and do what we have to do in peace.

Therefore, please quickly moderate yourself or convaince bullshitters to stop, or we will soon have to take great means and effectively do what we are saying here, which you, as well as we, really don't wish to.

Respectfully, for those who still deserve it

2. Raki,

aminiel,
You'll punish all, because of the wrong doing of some?
I’m sorry, but that’s the wrong way to do it.

What about the hundreds of players, all around the world, on the English server who didn’t do anything to deserve this?
“To hell with them.”
Is that your view on it?

3. dardar,

Heya aminal
although its a little drastic i do agree with what you are doing.
I've noticed a lot of the things you stated above and, have been rather upset to notice the lack of respect for females with know solid reasoning to insult them.
It's extremely sad what you are doing but people have forced you hand i see.
I do, however, ask one question. For those who are innosent and or who are able to speak another language such as french or spanish, would it be possible to swich to that server and not have our accounts terminated?
For the playroom, as well as being a game platform, is also a grate place to make new friends and meet amazing people. I know that totally desolving the english forum and playroom would certainly ruin many furm friendships.
So, would it be possible for me to swich to spanish forum and be safe, providing i speek spanish?
kind regards and respects

4. Fawaz,

Hello,
actually so sorry to hear this indeed very sad news :(
the problem, who using these sexual phrases are actually not entering the forum even, and their english so bad only know common bad English words. and they're trying to express their exasperation to some players.
and about multiple accounts, there are many players indeed have multiple accounts and acting odd with them.
with all these irritating problems, never be a good
solution is closing English section especially You guys worked well, and others also spent lots of energy on translation, and as you mentioned you had big goals like making new games and adding new features.
So the solutions are I suggest:
first of all, removing all accounts, and making registration payed, like 5-10 dollars.
and putting some players who knows English and enter frequently, for moderation, which you can receive reports from them and deal with it.
and also when you receive any complaint through e-mail hit a reply so they at least wait instead of posting on the forum.
in the end PR so famous now and everytime at least 400-500 online, so closing it so frustrating indeed.
and since you who created and admins, of course you have responsibility too - which i talked about replying to emails e.g -
and as you know never be huge amount of players in same place without troubles, unless there are strict rules and actions.
so I hope you take back this decision and move on to improve it :)
best regards.

5. chado,

hi aminiel

it's a bad thing to close english playroom just for that reasons

remember

playroom has almost 15000 members, and 300 people are onlin in english part

so if you removed the chat/if you close english playroom: you mean that you'll penalize all players in the english part

i think you must find a better Solution. closing pnglish playroom is very bad solution

6. soundarya,

I understand the reasons why you are planning to take this step,
but it is kind of too bad for the inocent ones.
I know that you are sad to take the charge against us which you dont wish to do,
but it really is a bad news for all of us.
like suppose we get disconnected again,
then those who aren't in our skype what about them?
completely disconnected.
in my opinion we should converse with each other about this issue with ourselves,
because we may get some better idea than turning off the english playroom which is a punishment inflicted mostly to the inosent, mostly to the common men.
why I want you to think again before closing the playroom is that
if we do close it, then it means that we accept that we lack the power of fighting against the evil and therefore we surrender.
at least think twice before surrendering!
With respect to your disisions,
regards, soundarya

7. Manchesterunited ,

Why innocent people have to suffer just because of some maniacs? Just seems to easy to me.

Zuletzt geändert von Manchesterunited , Sep 13 2014 18:37:26

8. me-me,

well i dont agree with this dessision. you can put rules and who doesnt respect

9. queen-angel ,

it is really quite unfortunate it has to reach this far, but really we have to take responsibility for this. I am a student of language so I have interacted with people from the English, Spanish, French and even Italian pr. Those who know me personally will tell you I'm a fondly person who takes an interest in culture. What I was able to pinpoint, however, was that there was a very fine line between us (the English pr) and they (Spanish, French etc.) where we would constantly fight and disrespect each other and are even divided according to cultures etc. For example, you would find the Turkish people isolated and other persons who speak a little English as well as that of their native tongue. When I saw the harmony and respect the Spanish pr had toward each other, I very much wanted that for the English pr. I don't believe removing this forum, however, will render this problem solved but finding the root cause of this onslaught is a better way to go. I think one of the contributing factors to this conspiracy is imbedded in the pride and diversity of the english pr's inhabitants where it's every man for his or her own country and culture. I beared witnessed to this on many occasions when visiting free tables to find persons arguing about whose country was and is the best. The truth is no matter where we go, these issues will always come up. Whether it be on another social site such as Facebook, Twitter or even RS games and even in the real world, you would always find critics, you will always find disrespect, isolation, pride, pretense, we cannot change the mind-frame of today's society but we can change the way we react and choose to deal with things. To sum it up in short, removing the English pr or cutting off any form of communication will only block or hold back the problem. it will not solve it because these people will still be who they are and they will still be inflicting pain on other people on other forums and sites. So please, for the sake of the persons who can have the mind to avoid and ignore these peasants, carefully consider your next step.

Zuletzt geändert von queen-angel , Sep 13 2014 18:55:07

10. Raki,

See, the problem is, While there is a select few country’s that speak French, or Spanish, English isn’t like that. There is People that speak English from north and south America, all through Europe and Russia, the middle east, Australia, Asia, and Africa. So there isn’t a specific culture like the French culture, or Spanish culture, it’s like a mixing pot from all around the world. Like fawaz said, any kid that knows a bit of English and a few swearwords, can troll this place.

Zuletzt geändert von Raki, Sep 13 2014 19:15:28

11. everyone,

Whoa, I feel I have to address some things here.
I haven't been around for all that long, but that really shouldn't matter because apparently the rule breaking is more recent.
Yes I've seen a bit of it. Of course I can't speak for everyone else, but it doesn't really detract from my experience on here very much. The people with lots of accounts (and yes, I am 100% convinced these people are there), I usually just laugh at them and then move on. Because it doesn't affect me, does that mean people should continue to break the rules? Absolutely not. I'm just one person and I know people can and will take offence to some of the insulting and sexually oriented topics, and no one likes spam.
But by the same logic, and as Raki already said, just because a few people break the rules doesn't mean everyone should be punished. Especially because a solution like this tends to only be temporary. Idiots will continue to be idiots because, well, that's what they're idiots for. I think the fact that they are trying to work around bans is proof enough about that. When the playroom comes back there's a fairly good chance that they will continue to harass people because they don't really care all that much about the well being of the rest of the playroom.
Instead of doing something like this, I would propose spending some time figuring out who could possibly be a moderator to help with the issues. Not only would this be a more permanent solution, but it would also give you more time to actually develop new things because you have other people dealing with people breaking the rules.
You've said several times that you are hesitant to choose any moderators because you don't know anyone and therefore don't know who to trust. That is perfectly understandable and therefore I suggest getting to know the community a little better, this would hopefully make it easier for you.
As to isolation... I don't really think so. There's a few Dutch people I know, but I also know people from Turkey, Canada, Egypt, Albania, etc. And so far I've basically managed to get along.
In short, I hope you will rethink this decision. Perhaps the moderators you may choose in the future won't be able to do their jobs perfectly but I think it is the lesser of two evils here. If you don't have an adequate way to stop people from breaking your rules, then the rules can and will be broken, because that's just how people work.

12. queen-angel ,

anyway, I do think removing this forum will only put a tamper on the problem but it would not resolve anything. people must realise it's the mentality we uphold in this pr that has the responsibility for its condition today. we have no one to blame but ourselves for the way we treat each other and react to abuse

13. keyWasFull,

What Everything said is true. Also, you cannot win by closing the playroom. Honestly, all online platforms have this kind of problem. The safety net of online anonymity gives people the courage to do a lot more destructive things. The only way to fight them is to have good people repulse them back. Getting english moderators and giving them the power to enforce the rules ought to be your top priority right now, not shutting the playroom down. Because, as has been stated previously, as soon as it gets back up people will be back to their idiotic behavior. There are many things you can do to keep unwanted people out. If you have to use IP tracking to stop people from making more accounts, then go for it.

14. Raki,

On any social site/forum/community, there will be rule breakers, there will be trolls, there will be people that don’t care about rules, but isn’t that how the world is? Sadly, this is what social media has become. And we just have to deal with it.

Saying that we’ll just have to hit the red button, and shut everything down is just preposterous.
after all, this is your client, and you’ll do as you choose; but you’ve created one of the biggest social, and gaming platforms for blind folks all around the world, and now you’re just going to shut the English people out?

What about the bonds/friendships that people have created because of this server, it’s just all going to shut down because of a few people who seem to need to spend more time in an asylum?
You guys said previously that you’re only 4 people, and spend most of your time creating new games for us, but as we all know a social platform this size needs moderating.
So as everything said in Post 11, maybe you guys need to spend more time getting to know your players, or get in to the process of finding mods.

I don’t think simply closing down the English side will do any good. on 1 hand your punishing like 97% of the people for doing nothing, and on the other hand, the trolls will just create more accounts and go on your other language servers and do what they do best.

So I really hope you guys think about it, before doing anything drastic.

15. dardar,

we will fight them on the beaches, we will, er, ahem, sorry got carried away b

16. fire-starter,

hello all, I've heared about this news,
there are some people on this platform they're only living about the girls and seks.
I hope this won't delete the English PR. I like some games, and, its fun here

marro

17. queen-angel ,

i don't think you can do much to improve the rules because it's really people who can decide for themselves to respect others or not, what I think though is that you should warn people that the moderators do not have much authority when it comes to potential abuse of any means and leave it up to the individual to decide. In my opinion, this site is still very friendly compared to the sighted world. like when people on facebook plan to meet with strangers and are murdered in the process. And still, facebook holds no responsibility for it because it was a personal choice of that individual even though at the expense of joining their site. Therefore if someone decides to join this pr, then the ball is in their court and if they cannot deal with the offences that spring their way, it is on their hands and no fault of the pr's

18. sound2,

Hello, as has been stated, shutting down the playroom, or the english part, won't solve any of the current problems. I feel what would help if rules were more strict, and that there wern't any loop holes. This has nothing to do with language or culture, people will bother people, and anoy them regardless of whichever language they speak. There is stil hope for this place. Shutting the english part of it down will only pull the playroom backwards not forwards. That is how I feel about the matter.

19. bmisch,

i don't think closing it would be fair to the rest of us though moderating everything would be ok for those who need it.

20. aravis,

the playroom team has moved the platform onto the tracks of a social network, and it is great, but there's always a negative side of things. the bigger a social network, the more drama it gets on the way. people with dirty thoughts in their heads who create multiple accounts are a part of just any website you think of. so, it had to be expected. and it's very easy for such bad people to do mischief in english, but if the english playroom gets shut down, google translate or other translation tools will help them to swear and abuse in the french, italian, german or portuguese community, you guys wouldn't like that to happen, would you? aminiel and all others in the team, i see it that you are in need of help about the forums, so why not announce for one? i'm sure some users would be glad to help moderating the forums! we're not enemies to each other, there can be those who'd like to help. and i, like someone in previous posts, also wonder what would become of our accounts if the english playroom goes. i hope you understand all our concerns on the matter.

Anastasia

21. riad,

Well, there are many people who don't use the playrrom as it should be, and I hope you won't take this decision, since we know some of the people causing us trubles. So I propose first to bann people who we know for sure causing trubles, and I know a few myself, than we'll see if there will be something wrong.

22. afrim,

Hi,
I myself believe that closing down the English forum won't lead us anywhere because those who spam and perform forbidden actions will be everywhere, even in the four other forums, such as italian forum, french forum, deutsch forum and the portuguese one. So I think there should be another decision, so as not to punish all the users of the English forum. Though you've said that there is not any admin/moderator over the english forum, it would be perfect if there would be one in the future days.
But if this action is formally taken, I also have the same question like the-Sith. Is there any option to move from the english forum to another one after it is closed?
Thanks and hope we all find another decision to prevent playroom users from spammers and idiots.
Good working

23. Raki,

afrim, If we can move to the other servers, so can the spammers, that's why closing the English playroom wouldn't be an option.

24. themusicman,

This is very sad that the English version of the play room has to be shut down because of stupid idiots. People need to learn how to conduct themselves. Since indeed this is a public place. I holpe those that have brought the folks to this choice are happy with themselves in this matter.

25. Aminiel,

OF course that it would be a big step backward. Of course that we wouldn't be pleased at all to do that. OF course that it would unfortunately punish a vaste majority of people who never did anything to deserve it. We know how much people love the playroom and that you met nice peers here. We measure how bad it can be, be sure that we know all that.

However, we must be honnest at some point: a few people are bullshitting, we have already tried many things but they continue, and they bypass our bans. If it was as simple as banning IP, it would have already been done long time ago. But now, we have come to a point where we have no time, no mood, and no way to stop them.

Don't worry too much, we never talked about a definitive shut down, and there wont never be. As already stated, if shut down there is, it would be only temporary. Just the time needed for us to breath a little, and take the most judicious decisions for the next. Only that.

Note that spanish playroom has the same kind of problems, english playroom isn't alone. Spanish is likely to be also concerned shortly. Abuses are also very frequent there.

WE are seriously thinking about moderation, but it's not as easy as it seems to be, and most importantly, it can't be done in one day. We need to have a break to think right, and that's why we are thinking about stopping the english playroom for a while.

26. Raki,

Here's hoping that you guys can come up with a good solution.

But just remember that, most of us now have gotten so use to some of those players now, that it doesn't really bother us. It has become kind of like a funny landmark; You turn, you look, you laugh, and you move on.
But as I and others have said previously, this isn't the only social platform experiencing this, and it won’t be the last. People simply have to exercise good judgment like we have to do anywhere else.
E.G. watch who you play with, watch who you become friends with. Use the block/ban feature when you don't feel comfortable.

There is a lot of social problems going on in the PR; people that don't know how to behave, people that don't know how to have an argument, people who can't explain themselves.
But, that isn't our problem, nor should it be the admen's, they can't be there parents and teach them how to behave.
But, we, (all the other players) also shouldn't suffer the consequences because of them.

And that brings me back to my previous point; good judgment, if you just come on the playroom to play, meet new people, make friends, block and ban when you don't feel comfortable, you really wont encounter any mager problems.

About abusive free table topics:
Look, I see these free tables all the time, it just makes me cringe and wonder what is wrong with these people. But you don’t have to join if you don’t want to. Send the table topic to the admen’s, and they will hopefully deal with it. I don’t see why we have to shut down, even temporarily because of that. Remember, playroom is not the only place where there is perverts.

Speaking about sending stuff to the admen’s, the admen’s have to get better at replying to messages, dealing with, and investigating issues and moderating.
Rules are rules, they will be broken, the question is how you admen’s police that.

So while I think this playroom is the best platform in the world for people who are blind, is there room for improvements? Definitely. So while you admen’s are making decisions, in my opinion, you guys should also talk about how to improve your work, what you guys should do better that can improve this server.
It's not only the players that are at fault here.

The rules are in place, the question is, are they being enforced?

Zuletzt geändert von Raki, Sep 14 2014 02:22:24

27. EllendeGeneres,

no no no no no admin please don't remove them don't remove them, sorry people I am blame for that....

28. Daredevil,

I personally would be disappointed if We had the English playroom shutdown, it's the only platform I player each evening. I rarely see abusive people but learnt to use features needed to make gaming better. Hopefully Admins don't shut us down but maybe close the playrrom for a period of 24 hours? so everyone can take a break.

We all make mistakes but I've never seen so much frustrations from fellow users before. It's a shame that small minority of people thinks abuse is okay. I've had troubles on playroom before and was able to look myself in the mirror and made up for it.

Keep up the great work admins!

29. blindncool,

You could always recruit mods! I would be happy to be a mod, as I have been in the playroom for years and I would hate to see the english playroom go.

30. Sportsoholic ,

My thoughts are as follows:
The more people who use the services that are provided here in the playroom, the more problem causers appear; if one is logical in his or her thinking, this conclusion is easy to realize. Aditionally, the more problem causers that frequent the playroom, the more man power it takes to find and deal with these delinquents. I have heard that there are over fifteen hundred people who use this system worldwide but am unsure how many people are on the playroom's volunteer staff to help to run the client.

Many of us have heard of a web chat system for blind people here in the United States called zonebbs.com. They've set up a system where by admins nominate moderators to find and discipline the bad apples based on guidelines that have been set in place by the admins. Each person who has an account with zonebbs.com has been given the names of the system's moderators in the announcement messages that appear when people log into the site, and methods for users to reach these moderators have been put in place to facilitate easy communication with the moderators when problems arise.

While it would be a shame for you to have to temporarily close down the English and other language portions of the playroom, it is completely understandable based on what I stated earlier in this message, a lack of man power. Should you come to such a decision, please consider what they are doing to moderate things at zonebbs.com. Some of us might say that they are much too strict over there and somewhat hypocritical on how they deal with certain offenders. However, at least they have a working system of moderation which keeps most of the bad apples in check.

Thanks,
Shannon

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