Hi. So I'm using an Iphone 7, and am running the latest IOS. Since I've updated my phone, the web client has become extremely clunky and buggy. For example, when I create a game, the only way I can leave it, is to kick myself out of the game. If I try to use leave button, it either sends me to message the admins, or preposes that I open a link. Also, when I'm playing a game, Voiceover keeps loosing focus and putting me at the address bar, or in my history. Do the developers actually want people who aren't on windows computers to play this game? Just curious because it feels like, if I had something with windows on it, I wouldn't be having anywhere near the difficulties I'm having as a non windows user.

agreed, happens with me

Not an Iphone user but I know a lot more people who could play here if the PR was more Iphone friendly.

I'm sure that the developer does not want anybody to play who is not on Windows, so is making the web client as bad as possible. More seriously, web client is pretty complicated to maintain and I congratulate Aminiel for such an impressive job with it. There are so many factors. For example, you did say you are on an IPhone, but now which iOS version? To make it even more complicated, I could tell you that the client works mostly fine on Android, and I do not have such issues. Considering that the developer himself uses an IPhone, you just need to provide as much info as possible to get your issues addressed. There is also always the fact that sometimes issues are even due to the way Apple does things, however I haven't experienced such issues you describe on an iOS device yet.

Hello,

The impossibility to click on certain buttons is a known issue, that I sometimes also experiment myself. However, I have never found what exactly cause which button to suddenly become unresponsive, and so have no real solution, sadly.
I put the issues of unexpected jumps to address bar or at a random place in the same category of bizarre problems.

I suspect it is related to visual appearance, because the problematic buttons seem to change with iOS updates and the exact device used.
I don't have problems with the same buttons on my iPhone 8 than I have on my iPad, and than I had on my iPhone 5; people reported things with the iPhone X/XR/XS that I haven't with my 8; something that worked fine in iOS 9 and 10 stopped working in iOS 11 and went back in iOS 12; it seems also different if an external blutooth keyboard is connected or not; etc.

The definitive solution would probably be first to arrange CSS, but of course I need a sighted developer to do that... or, for another day, make an app. Sorry but for now you have to deal with what you have.

Hi Aminiel. I'm reviving this topic since I am facing major problems with the web client on an IPhone 8, and since you mentioned it I am curious how well does it work for you right now? With latest iOS available, the web client is pretty much unusable for me. If I click for example, functions and more, then open friends list, and click go back, it will instead click on some random person in the list. If I press the options button, it activates create a new table, and cancel on that screen created a scientific war game. I tried it with Chrome as well, however as I expected it did not make a difference since they do use the same engine anyways. I hope something can be done about this. I have tried to switch views as well by pressing the layout button, I didn't get any feedback that anything changed however it still remained the same.

Hello,

I observe the same as you for the cancel that creates a scientific war table, and for the leave table switching spectator mode also. For the friend list everything is well on my side, certainly because we don't have the same number of friends.

This is exactly the kind of bug I have just explained. Sadly, I still don't understand what makes suddenly a button no longer working, and even less why it clicks on another button or jumps to the address bar instead. Perhaps it will be gone with iOS 13, or perhaps not.

I don't know well what to do to definitely fix this: Maybe I need to ask a CSS expert, or an Apple expert.

I would be interested in making an iOS app, but I don't know how to proceed. There are frameworks like Apache Cordova, NativeScript, etc… but no one is able to tell me if they are capable of producing accessible apps; and it seems that a mac is required for the final compilation step, and I have no mac; no one can tell me if it's indeed the case or if there's a solution without having a mac. That's two quite simple questions but nobody is able, or want to answer !

As long as Apple and iOS developers in general are so secret and so elitist, I'm afraid not being able to enter there. That's extremely sad; very bad philosophy, but well, it's Apple.

Another possibility: I wouldn't be very happy to leave someone else making an app without myself actively participating in the process, first because I don't have the money, but also because I'm afraid to lose control. IF someone knows a reliable iOS developer ready to make something together for the playroom for free or at a symbolic cost, please tell me; or organize a mass donation. The problem with this approach of giving the work to someone else is to finally get something not as good as expected; for example I have read bad comments about the iOS app of RSGames; an explanation would be he let another developer making the app for him.

hi. Regarding the web client, i suspect it has something to do with the page not scrolling correctly, since any menu having more than 10 items seems to be problematic. Aditionally, if i for axample swipe to the last item in a large menu with voiceover and then try to explore to this same item, it is in fact not visible which was what made me suspect it was related to scrolling. In regards to a native app, I fully understand where you are coming from. Indeed, the RS games app was made in collaboration with Blindfold games, who have the same philosophy of avoiding the real UI elements and creating their own set of navigation gestures, thus where most bad comments come from since you can't really use any voiceover gestures inside the app, not to mention it is not exactly the most friendly app for non native English speakers.

Regarding the web client, i suspect it has something to do with the page not scrolling correctly, since any menu having more than 10 items seems to be problematic.

I have the same impression, since the first top n buttons of the menu always work. But it doesn't change anything, I have no idea how to verify if this is indeed the problem, and how to solve it.
We need a CSS expert.

Indeed, the RS games app was made in collaboration with Blindfold games, who have the same philosophy of avoiding the real UI elements and creating their own set of navigation gestures, thus where most bad comments come from since you can't really use any voiceover gestures inside the app, not to mention it is not exactly the most friendly app for non native English speakers.

I'm convainced that they took the wrong approach. It is clear that, if I'm doing a mobile app one day, I would be using native UI elements. It's good for accessibility, good for stabiility, good for user friendliness, and stays open to sighted users if they accept the somewhat awful design.
I generally hate these apps where they reinvented their own gestures if it isn't really needed.

yes, I feel the same when it comes to UI, which is just one of the many reasons I like the way you make your interface. It is perfectly ok in some cases, for example audio games like a blind legend, but is unnecessary in card, board and dice games, in fact often if I don't play such games in a long time I can forget what gestures to use. Regarding CSS, have you tried writing on any mainstream forum/ programming list explaining the problem in more technical detail? It would be so great if this is solved one day, since you really made a great web app suffering only this major issue, which is such a shame since web API's are improving all the time, and even though it will probably never be as great as a native app, I feel like it gets really close. Of course there is always the fact that users who are not so good with computers find web apps hard to use, but that is another topic.

Heard a story once that someone went off and made a Playroom IOS app without your consent or anyone's, is this true?

Regarding CSS, have you tried writing on any mainstream forum/ programming list explaining the problem in more technical detail?

IF you think about something like stackoverflow, no.
My problem here is that I don't know how I can describe the problem simply.
First of all, I have never been able to experiment it elsewhere, and it's the first step toward the resolution.
That's a blind-to-blind specific issue and I'm pretty sure that sighted users on the forum will first tell me to fix the design, what I don't know how to do anyway.

Heard a story once that someone went off and made a Playroom IOS app without your consent or anyone's, is this true?

I have heard such a thing once, but never seen the app in question.
If it really exists, I can only strongly advice not to use it, because you don't know if the author didn't put trackers or other bad stuff in it.

There is an Android app which just connects you through the Web, and for Ios I've never heard something similar. It's not that simple to do something like that, mainly because app store is very strict.
And Aminiel I am working for a company called Santis in Switzerland, our current topic of learning is CSS and HTML. If there is any way you would want us to help it might be possible. People in this company are very familiar with screen readers so I can take solwing this problem as my project. I also have team of great CSS and HTML experts here. If this sounds interesting to you we could discuss it in private. Just an idea.

@Kotoamatsukami: it would be interesting to have help, but would you do it for free or almost ?

The playroom is a free gaming platform and all those who work for it are doing it in their spare time, so we of course can't afford the real price of an expert.

Or we should consider becoming a paid service… what isn't that simple because of law and copyright; and I think we are going to lose many users if we do so.

No no, it all would be free. If you are willing to consider this option then I could talk to my team of programmers, we would all work on it together and we could stay in touch because you are the one commanding what should be done.
It is a group of young students having professors behind us, they would be assisting all the time. Solwing this problem and perhaps improving a few things would be like our task, I am quite optimistic that they will find this interesting.

Was anything done on your side to fix this? If not, I am happy to say that at this time, the web client scrolls as expected on iOS 13 public beta. I hope it will stay this way.

@Nikola> No, I haven't changed anything since quite a long time in the web client.

@Kotoamatsukami> So how could we proceed next ? It would be really nice if someone could help for that problem and more generally arrange the design of the website.

I will inform you as soon as I get back to my work in August. It would be cool if you could give me any way to contact you privately.