How can this be a peaceful community...

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1. StormProductions,

Hello,

I know this might not be a good reason to post here, but there's no way I can actually tell you all my opinions.

Today I have connected to the playroom, and decided to check the free tables, since I wanted to speak to someone.
Guess what... three weird public tables. First one named "Niggas only", second one named "Sexy friends", and third one had some weird arabic letters in.
I joined the "Sexy friends" thingy since the first one was public but only friends of the master could join.
People were speaking in another language, even if the rules clearly say not to speak another language in a public table made in the English part.
I tried to tell them about the rule that they're breaking, and they banned me, then the master blocked me and PM'd me with the phrase "Go child, bye".

First of all, weird topics.
Second, foreign language in the English part.

So, what the heck is going on here? I can't even join a free table without seeing weird topics.

My suggestion is that there should be some sort of filter which would disallow some words from being used in table topics.

I hope that I was clear enough and that this thing would somehow be avoided in the future.

Note: You can delete this topic if you think that it doesn't have a good place here.
Note 2: I didn't want to be rude to anybody, I just expressed my own opinion.

Have a nice time!

2. marina7,

Hello,
The mentioned free table topic was dealt with.

3. Nikola,

Will a certain topic about lovers be dealt with as well and why not? Isn't it very nice to ban the entire community from a table and keep it public? Thanks for your quick enforcement of the rules.

4. YNWA,

There is nothing new here people just do what they like and it is getting worse.

5. Cristina,

I guess, you should not take it so personal and also sould not care at all.
There will be always people like that, but it is about their level of education, IQ and so on...
It often happened to me things like that when I joined or was invited to some tables and there were persons who have something against me, they left and I really did not care at all. I did not feel offended or akward, why should we if their brain can not help them to behave like normal people? Smile
Once it has happened, I joined a free table, there were some people I will not mention their name, but just because ever I did not want to play with one of them because a friend invited me, that person asked in private the tabel master to make him master, then he kicked me.
I did not mind, did not try to join again because I really did not care.
Why would we care or kill our nerves being angry because of such people?
Their behavior tells much about their personality, so no need to feel offended or complain about them.
I simply never join their tables or tell the people who invite me, I do not want to join if those who leave when I join, are there.
I let them enjoy and be happy if such tyhings could make anyone to be happy... :D :D :D

6. StormProductions,

Hello,

Yeah Cristina and YNWA, you're right. I just wanted to point out these topics as the helpers didn't respond to my message when I messaged them.
Nikola, do you really have to be rude on all the forum topics?

7. Vojvoda ,

First thing I need to tell you storm is to go out and hang out with friends a bit, don't be locked in your room for the entire time, start chilling and enjoying the life outside of your computer, believe me there are many things to see.
Second thing is about the reason I was banned for, the reason was inappropriate table topic which was sexy friends. Now I want to explain that word sexy doesn't mean to f**k, it doesn't offend anyone's gender, nationality, political or religious views and that word is used in the news, on TV, in broadcasting and is sinonime:
seductive
desirable
alluring
inviting
sensual
sultry
slinky
provocative
tempting
I understand all kind of physical and mental diseases so let's go to the next point where we just skip the part about explaining word sexy being just a normal word, I just want to tell you that noone talked about sex on the table, our topics were shoes and match AC Milan VS Inter and Ibrahimovic scoring. Summarizing this, word sexy was meant in a way beautiful.
I got a message from helpers that topic is not appropriate so I made the table private, then got a message that it's not enough, changed the topic but I was getting angry already because there was nothing wrong in the topic. 5 minutes after I changed the topic I got banned for 12 hours. Nice right? Oh I know but it's not the end. then my friend left also the table after five seconds and received a message from helpers that he should change the topic of a non existent table which he left, although he was not at that table anymore and although I changed the topic 5 minutes before the ban happened they did not stop that type of behavior for unknown reasons.
I changed the topic of the table which by the way was private to svi na terapiju kod miroljuba, which in english means everyone should go to therapy to Miroljub. Let's explain who was and still is Miroljub, Miroljub is a Serbian famous doctor of natural medicine who critisizes Alcohol, Drugs, and all the unhealthy things in a funny way of talking.
Did helpers maybe ban me because the topic was in Serbian?
I very hope not because there were two tables at the same time written in arabic and some other language, can't remember and they were not banned, and hey guys they were even public. Who knows how many tables are there in different languages while I am writing this message now. But Let's just assume and hope that I was not banned for this reason cause that would mean that some people have privileges while others don't.
Let's go to second possibility, and that would be: Helpers did not check whether I changed the topic or not, oh look what a shame for them, maybe they were busy multytasking so they thought they've checked, gosh this starts to feel cringe already.
If there is third reason I kindly ask you to write it here, I am opened for a constructive discussion but only with admins and helpers, this is my last message on the forum mentioning and answering to anyone who isn't Aminiel or some helper, so storm productions should feel proud maybe.
If you think about banning me again or deleting this post or my message please firstly send me a message so I can delete the sentence which you find inappropriate.

P.s. I am far from angry on Storm Productions, it's not his fault that he reported but the helpers fault that they did what was wrong in eyes of every normal person. Until your response dear helpers,
bye

8. YNWA,

It is true words can have different meanings and have changed over the years. Wicked is a good example as it meant bad and in the 1990s meant cool.

Nobody can say what your intention was for your choice of the phrase "Sexy friends" but it does not create a good image for the Pr and should not be a topic title for a free table so I can understand why it has been reported, afterall, nobody can read your mind/intention. You have to learn to take your punishment and not blame others.

Latest edition by YNWA, Feb 10 2020 17:29:24

9. Vojvoda ,

No I won't tolerate replying to only one of the lines I wrote. I will and I do blame them, if they warned me to change the topic and I change the topic they can not ban me. I however explained everything in my message abowe so whoever will try to take just one sentence from the context that won't work with me. I am not a teletubby.

10. Cristina,

Oh, lol, really?
Were you banned because there was a title like that?
My God, but what's wrong with "sexy" word?
"Sexy friends" can mean cool friends, so, nothing bad which could affect "the imagin of pr"...
But na... there are all kind of people and the narrow minded people are part of them.
The life is nice because of diversity... Smile!

11. Vojvoda ,

I am positively surprised that someone understood that word sexy isn't inappropriate

12. YNWA,

The phraise can have many meanings so will depend on your point of view but is not a good choice. If I created a username called the Dog's B*** my meaning is being the best but to someone else it can be an insult. Sexy means something good looking/beautiful so wanting friends like that to join you is not a wise choice as it is discriminating against people who are visually challenged/ugly. In view of a previous topic on here saying only some people want women, then it is not a good choice of topic on a free table at this time.

13. StormProductions,

I think I shouldn't have created this topic... Um...

14. Aminiel,

Hello,

Taken alone, "sexy" doesn't look especially unappropriate.

However, with the word "friend" next to it, clearly, it can, among others because of the proximity with "sex friend".

Recognize that it's quite a bad choice actually.

15. Vojvoda ,

OK I understand, let's say sexy is not appropriate, and why do I get ban even if I changed it? Do you also support that Aminiel. I know you need to take the side of helpers but try to be objective here and try to explain me would you Aminiel ban me 5 minutes after I listened to you and changed the topic?

16. Aminiel,

Hello,

Personally I wouldn't have ban you after you have changed the topic, if the question was only about this, except if you were doing it for the second or third time.

However, I don't know the whole situation, and so can't judge if helpers did well or bad. That's not my role.
Don't hesitate to ask them for precisions if you don't understand something, or if you feel their reaction unappropriate. You shouldn't see helpers as being guards ready to fire their gun at any occasion, and they shouldn't behave like that. Sadly, ban is sometimes necessary, but shouldn't be the first and only action. By the way, that's why we have chosen the word helper, rather than moderator.

17. marina7,

Hello all,

After seeing that Vojvoda and his friends has taken the matter to the public, and are trying to play the victim role, I have to explain some unclear points about that specific case.

We need to start by having a look at the background of that specific incident because the ban was not something that came out of nowhere, and I have taken in consideration many other factors.
I have always received complaints about Vojvoda’s status messages for containing something sexual or in one incident, racist. When I ask him very professionally to change it via f4, he always replies very unprofessionally and very ironically, or refuses to change it.
And since he refuses to change such statuses most of the times even after the warning I often had to ban him for some few hours.

So, back to that specific incident, let’s skip the part about the topic sexy friends since it is controversial and many people have agreed it is not a wise choice, hence it would not hurt to change it to cool friends I believe. Anyway, as usual he talked very ironically and very unprofessionally, that is how I would rephrase it.
His argument was that the table is private, which does not make sense, and does not change anything since by that logic I can go insult any player using the table topic by just making it private and that would protect me? He also argued that Aminiel have said that since the free table is private “there is nothing that matters there” so that can protect him, which Aminiel had never said.
Note that the other player who had his free table topic “only niggas” Changed the topic immediately without such useless arguments, and was not banned.
As it was discussed before, we as admins and Helpers of the English part understand the particularity of the English part of the playroom, and in many occasions, actually most occasions allow foreign languages as free table topics or statuses, unless they are reported to us for violating any rule which sadly we have no so certain method to check. So we try our best to figure out what it means and request them to change it as an extra precaution.

So why was Vojvoda banned?
Vojvoda can actually speak English quite good as you can see, it is not that he cannot, despite that fact, after he was asked to change such topic, he chose to use a foreign language which happens to be Serbian.
considering his background and previous incidents that would almost certainly something ironic or insulting, it is good that he has done me a favor and explained it here, so I was not wrong, after all, and here is his explanation:

I changed the topic of the table which by the way was private to svi na terapiju kod miroljuba, which in english means everyone should go to therapy to Miroljub. Let's explain who was and still is Miroljub, Miroljub is a Serbian famous doctor of natural medicine who critisizes Alcohol, Drugs, and all the unhealthy things in a funny way of talking.

We are not robots; we have brains to think and understand the intended meaning or action to change it to a foreign language, and even more, put such topic that says “everyone should go to therapy”, just after asking him to change a topic which he did not agree it should be changed.
And by the way when I asked his friend to change the topic he was in the table but with the Serbian topic.

So lastly, I will demonstrate what I meant by ironic and unprofessional manors by showing you the conversation of that incidents and what his friend has done after the ban.
marina7 replies to Vojvoda: please change your free table topic to somethign more appropriate.
Vojvoda says to operators: table is private
marina7 replies to Vojvoda: it doesn't matter, the topic is still not appropriate.
Vojvoda says to operators: so funny aminiel said so many times that if the table is private there is nothing what matters there
marina7 replies to Vojvoda: not the topic, he never said so.
Vojvoda says to operators: he said so and I will give you the link of that
marina7 replies to Vojvoda: anyway change it first.
Vojvoda says to operators: And now if I provide the link you resign from your position or what
marina7 replies to Vojvoda: provide that link, anyway I have all authority to take actions what I think fit.
marina7 replies to Vojvoda: you can contact admins and ask about that.
Vojvoda says to operators: kk won't provide the link which won't make any changes but will let him know
marina7 replies to bronze.bomber: Please change your free table topic.
bronze.bomber says to operators: Hi, this is very unpolite and unacceptable what you are doing now. You banned my friend five minutes after he changed the table topic and wrote a message to me to change the topic when I already left the table. This is not a toy of yours and be sure that I will contact Aminiel through my french friends and the ending won't be here.

I will let you dear users decide if the ban of only 12 hours considering all the facts, was appropriate or not.
Thank you.

18. Vojvoda ,

Hahahaha your only arguments were that I was not respectful to you and unprofessional mixed with a few lies, let's skip the part about my past bans cause I don't want to comment them and move to following points:

  1. The reason for my ban here was inaproppriate table topic, you can copy it from the forum and paste here, the reason was not table topic, past status messages and unprofessional replies.
  2. The table contained the stream where Doctor Miroljub was talking and that's why the topic was posted, though you could visit him and get some lectures. Instead of doing your job to the end you did only a half of it.
  3. You won't tell me in what languages will my table be cause there are hunderds of other tables in many many languages, included your status message which is not in english, seems you did not read that I said that I am not a teletubby so your argument vojvoda can speak english he has to speak english is sooo poor for many reasons, one of it is that two of my three best friends don't speak english. Table where you spend your time has title lovers micro zift you know it also could be understood in a wrong way.
  4. I know that there are people who you favorise and you don't want to ban. Maybe for the reason that they are your friends or you support their statements I don't know. A guy named Renato or Renatto can't remember, a guy I saw for the first time in my life joined the table where I played spades with my friend who had nickname Serbian, he joined randomly and wrote Kosovo is Albania fuck Serbia, the guy Kempfious who insulted my mother just because he felt that way, you know they did not get any ban? I very well remember when Laila.Ali was quite teased in a quite rude way from one of your friends, when she replied him, only she got a ban.
  5. I know you thought this maybe will stay hidden forever but as you can see I decided to speak and I will keep doing it.
  6. Everytime I see a table in another language I will report it on f4, if the table is not dealed with as you like to say, I will post it on the forum unless you don't ban me from the forum that is., but I know that not everyone is Vojvoda right? So a little privileges can't be wrong I guess.

19. marina7,

I thought this hole thing was to comment why were you banned, so why are we skipping your previous bans? Because they were faire? Sorry to state that I do faire bans, this upsets you.
I invite everyone who reported Vojvoda’s status messages to me in the past to confirm here just if they wish so, to show that “my arguments are not mixed with some lies”
And you said you will report this to Aminiel, who stated he would also ban you if you have done it more than 3 times which you have done much more than that.
About the table topic part, that was already explained, I have no time to uselessly argue with you hole day to remove controversial status messages or table topics. Twisting the rules and using exceptions is something you always know how to do to allow yourself to violate the rules with no rights. So considering it is not the first time you do such thing the ban was so reasonable.
About your other points, they are all invalid since this topic was about you, and since you have nothing to say you made them up. Anyway let’s get them out of the way, although no one have appointed you the general attorney of the playroom last time I have checked.
I think since you cannot spy on our forums now you do not know who is banned and who is not.
If you do not report via f9 we cannot, and not interested to, spy hole day on users to do the police. However, that certain player Renatto was banned on multiple occasions for spamming, insulting and bad language, and if he was reported then he was banned.
About Kempfious, he was actually banned for that very specific report you are talking about.
With regards to Laila.ali everyone can also confirm they were insulted so badly by her, including myself for no apparent reason, and all her bans were done based on reports.
Again, for foreign free table topics, since so long time only the offensive ones are being dealt with.
This will be my last reply here, because I do not need to explain anything anymore, everything is clear and it is for people to judge. And by the way, this will be my last reply for real not just saying that for the sake of appearing reasonable.
If anyone thinks that a ban I have applied was unfair I am always ready to listen and discuss the matter logically.
If any admin think I have abused my powers in any way or was unfair anyhow, I am ready to resign, no questions asked. I am far of running after power, and when I applied to be a helper is because I loved how this place once was without abusers and wished to restore its peace back. So if Admins think I have done a bad job with that, they can do what they see fit.
I am sorry that I have also used that ironic manor, but if the professional manor does not work then I am forced to use it.
I hope you all have fun here, without any disturbances.

20. YNWA,

If you create a questionable topic at a free table private or not you can still land yourself in hot water as anybody can read it/here it.

GROUP PUNNISHMENTS

Marina7's article suggested that there were previous issues with a group of people. I think a good feature for helpers would be the ability for helpers to be able to ban a group of individuals from playing/joining each other at a game/free table in the PR for a small period. They would still be able to play in the PR as usual but not join any of the banned users during the ban period.

So if Katie, john, Michael and Gordon received this kind of ban only one of them could join YNWA for a game of scopa either as a player or spectator, the same would apply to a free table. Most of the time this is not needed but for the few problem groups we have I feel this would work.

21. MagicalKrrish,

I am sure the helpers here doing a good job and i aplaw for their hard work that they put despite of their own time. Noone will ban someone without a reason and reading the post shows who is in which dept of water. If you are doing wrong then you will be punished. No use of crying like kids here. If one learns from their previous mistakes and inproove on this then nothing will happen as such. So my message is stop making this a big issue and move on and learn from your mistakes.

22. Vojvoda ,

I had a good laugh over here not because of marina, but because of something what we call bots in Serbia, lol Krrish seriously.
For me it's sad that Aminiel doesn't see who is a real helper over here, who is giving quick efficient and the best help to users, thanks to Nikola, Aminiel if you ever need a new helper and I think you do need give that guy a chance, at least allow him to be technical support on f4.
See, you would never ever get to know about that forum dear helper, if me stupid head hadn't tell you. And guess who found out that bug, Nikola did thanks to him again.
I have no intention of replying anymore either, I just proved myself what I had to, seriously I've seen enough from this blindy community, sexy being a bad word, your friend coming to help you here, this kid making this thread firstly lol and helper which doesn't even check the forum, nikola is also kinda stupid that he wastes his time helping here doing the helper's job. In exchange Serbs can not even get a translation.
But gosh what am I expecting from people whose lives begin and end with playroom, a huge goodbye from me, and if I would be you since I have some pride I would resign without admins having to tell me.

23. YNWA,

As you know about football I will give you one name. Aleksandar Mitrović. If he didn't keep getting sent off when he was at Newcastle he would be playing for Newcastle in the Premier League and maybe heading for a bigger club instead of playing in the Championship with fulham. It doesn't matter how good you are but if you miss too many games some managers don't want you playing for them.

24. Nikola,

Well, I do want to say some things. First, regarding moderation, let's say I share similar views with Aminiel. No matter what you do, it always makes some people unhappy and it doesn't interest me. However, offering technical support for Playroom users is something that is a pleasure to do, and I'm happy to share the knowledge I have. Same goes for a possible translation job. When I wanted to translate the Playroom, I had other people in mind for being helpers, people who didn't have any issues with the administration. It interests me much more to be a helper offering technical support and real help instead of moderation. However, on the English part it is often necessary. To switch back to the original topic, as much as I try to understand it Marina does say some rather silly things. Spying on your forum? Well, if that was my interest the bug would not be reported. However, a security issue was found and reported, later fixed. All of this with foreign languages is a huge complication to deal with, and a lot of it would be solved if Aminiel was more open to new translations. Why would English helpers, in this case one helper alone have to deal with 10 other languages? It's ideal to have separate servers where the appropriate language team would deal with such issues. Of course, starting 10 translations at once is also a bad idea, but if we started one language each year it could work quite well. I don't know when was the last translation done, but we didn't get any new languages for several years.
Another thing is regarding people and reporting. I don't understand what is it with reporting everyone and everything. Why would I report someone's status message? I can discuss with them since they are in my friends list, and if they really don't change and I am offended it's really easy to remove someone and never see it again. 70 percent of the issues can be solved by simply blocking or removing someone. The rest 30 is extreme cases where people create many multiple accounts to abuse. On the other hand, there are people who enjoy the satisfaction of someone being banned and report people just to brag that a person was banned thanks to their report.
Even this topic I do not understand. So what if you found weird tables? You can create your own and talk to people normally. Some people are easily offended though. I suppose a good suggestion would be that if you block someone, you don't see their tables either. Since you can't join them anyways I do think that will avoid similar issues. If someone is constantly creating tables that offend you, just block them and be done with it.

And a last note: I've brought this up when discussing with helpers, but the rules in the English part need updating. Compare the French and the English topics and you will see that several things are not mentioned, like no multiple accounts and the rule about admins having the right to close any topic or remove a stream without needing to provide justification. You can't expect new users who sign up to translate the French rules.
Personally, I don't believe that any helper should resign. The situation was much worse a few years ago when English Playroom had no helpers. Sorry, but the time I joined the Playroom was terrible. For this case alone you would probably get a forever ban just because the administrators would not bother discussing in English and it was the easiest thing to do. However, possibly we in fact do need more helpers. I don't know what happened to others and won't get into that, but Marina is the only active helper. One helper can't moderate such a huge place without making mistakes. So I do believe that should be consider at some point in the future. All languages have at least 3 helpers.
Good luck in making the Playroom a great and enjoyable place. It's not an easy task.

25. Cristina,

Finally a wiser comment and not offensive at all.
And yeah, I agree, Marina has a hard job dealing alone with all the craziness on here because some players are behaving as when they would be in the kindergarten.
So, stop biting her...
think, all of us should be more tolerant, more flexible and nicer to each other, then everything would be better on here.

26. YNWA,

It is possible to have more than one helper as other language parts do but at the end of the day discipline and respect is down to the individual and that is not shown here as you can read in this topic. Respect for the language and people is shocking in this part of the PR.

I don't feel there is a great need for a Serbian PR personally and have not seen a great number of people calling for it. Turkish, Arabic and Romanian yes but not serbian. Yes I understand the right to have your own language version of the PR but it would not be fun to play if the most you would ever get is 7 or 8 max.

27. Dayan,

There are a lot of Arabs and Turks, yeah. But even if there's a single Serbian player, and that player is ready to help translating then why not? I mean, not to be rude but even Albanian was here at some point and I only know like 3 people or 4 from there, while I know many other Serbs. Luckily some of them speak English, but some also don't. And if you want to have more reasons, there are if not Serbs, then more slavic people out there and their languages can be really similar to Serbian, so a translation could be even helpful for them. I don't know if you realised, but when Russian language got added, the Russian players increased. Even if not to a huge quantity, still they increased, so even Serbs could increase if a translation got added. Some players who don't speak English are already used to play in English, but some have it difficult, thus there are not many players from there. And come on, I thought in this community we didn't exclude anyone. It's as in big companies that make their apps, still they don't care of making them accessible always because there are not so many blind people. Even if there is one or two or a million it makes no different. Let's stop excluding.
This is what I have to comment over this. About Marina doing her job and Vojvoda being the way he is I prefer to save my opinions to myself to not make of it an even bigger problem. I know many things that are better not said here, but I know Marina is making her job very well. Congrats Marina for dealing with this all alone, shame on you, though, disappeared helpers (@Basket and @Mayya). Next time don't carry with such a huge responsibility if you won't take it serious.

Latest edition by Dayan, Feb 12 2020 16:44:20

28. Nikola,

Thanks Dayan. I fully agree Turkish, Arabic and Romanian are a priority, even based on statistics, and if translators for any of these would be willing to do the job, they should be the first. Only for Arabic Aminiel expressed the concern of not being sure how to deal with the right to left writing system. Yes, Serbian is a little more specific, as if it is done, people from Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and even Macedonia would play on the server, as those 3 languages are extremely similar and all of us understand each other.

29. Aminiel,

OK, I think that with posts #18 and #22 we have reached a kind of non-return point. I'm going to close this topic shortly.

You have been caught, assume it.
You don't agree with the punishment, talk about it with the helpers but in private.

Helpers won't ban you again if you are asking for a discussion.
Just don't always play the victim, don't always call favoritism, and don't always try to work around bans.
That's childish. Grow up.

Now if you are unhappy with the playroom, the helpers or the admins, you have the freedom to leave.

Now about translations, that's another topic completely.
The fact is that the person responsible of managing translations teams, Anneau-de-saturne, speaks french, and not very very good english or at least doesn't feel comfortable enough in english; so, sadly, we're more comfortable with people who can speak enough french.

However, note that opening a new translation for every language may not be a good thing.

Basicly the playroom makes a strict separation between languages: someone speaking french can't play with someone speaking english at the same table.
With the years, I realize that it was perhaps not the best approach, because people of different languages could well play together with their respective translations; but at the same time having everybody at the same place isn't ideal either, because it would quickly be unmanageable.

It's true that opening a new language made more people coming in in italian and spanish, but it doesn't seem to be always true: there's near to nobody in german, albanian was a fail, and it seems to grow quite slow with russian.
So by introducing turkish, arabic, serbian or whatever else, we are taking the rist to create something that people will finally never use; they will keep coming in the english part beacause there's never anybody in their dedicated part.
I don't know well exactly what cause people to make the massive switch happen or not. That's a great question ! Is it cultural, a question of critical mass, both, something else ?
that could indeed help us finding what could be the next most promising language to add.

30. Rory101,

yeah I saw a lot of public tables where they were not speaking engilsh and then when I tried to tell them to make it private, sometimes they sware at me, sometimes that just, kick, with no warning, and, I find it quite rude and just, they need to be dealt with.

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